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Post by dizzy on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:02 am

OK, I have a problem I'm not quite sure how to handle. I'm involved w/a non-denominational, international group. One of the elected positions in this is chaplain, and I don't agree w/things that he has been teaching. They had a different chaplain when I joined, and he did a short devotional. Our last meeting, this guy was preaching, for quite some time-and this was just part one of his sermon! Basically, these are the 3 points that I disagree with. I do not believe they have a Biblical basis.

1. Because of Jesus' death on the cross, we have not only forgiveness from sin, but also health. For this, he used Isaiah 53:5, and 2 Peter 2:24. Isaiah says w/his stripes we are healed, Peter says w/his stripes we were healed. But, in both instances, there is no mention of health, but only of sin. And if you look in Matthew when the Pharisees are getting upset about Jesus eating w/tax collectors and sinners, Jesus replied that those that were well don't need a physician, but they that are sick. Then he says that he is not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. And the NT is full of references of Him dying for our sins, but not for our health. In fact we're told that creation is groaning from the curse-which won't be removed until Jesus returns to this earth.

2. This ties in w/#1. According to him, Jesus received 39 lashes from the whip. There are 39 different types of diseases, and when He died on the cross, He took all of these diseases in His body. I know where he gets the number 39 from, the Jews were not permitted to give more than 40 lashes. So to be sure they didn't go over that, they stopped at 39. Paul says that he received 40 lashes less 1. But this beating was NOT done by the Jews. It was done by the Romans. And, they were not held to this number. I did some research and found that others believe this, I don't know where they come up w/the 39 diseases, but again, I don't believe this to be Biblical

3. This is the worst. According to him, when Jesus died on the cross, He was no longer the son of God. I find NO Biblical basis for this. If He was not God, then He would have had to be a man. And no man could die for the sins of the world.

I know that I have 2 options at this point in time, either say nothing, or confront him on this. And I'm thinking I need to say something to him. If he wants to believe this, that's his business. I've done some research and found that there are those that believe this. But, since this is supposed to be a non denomination group, I do not feel that he should be teaching this, but should stick to things that will help everyone to grow.

So, how would you handle this? If I cannot resolve this, then while I will continue to meet w/them, I will excuse myself B4 this guy starts to "teach".

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Post by Farmfresh on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:13 am

I think you should confront him and explain your beliefs.  I am also wondering about the rest of the congregation.  Is everyone else following this teaching?
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Post by 12acrehome on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:24 am

I view the first two as pure bunk. The third point has some small amount of merit, but as written is twisted. As Jesus was on the cross he took upon himself all of our sins. God (according to Baptist teachings) cannot look upon sin, and therefore turned away from Jesus as he died on the cross.{ "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me" (Matthew 27:46) }

IMO walk away or gather others and run this person off for not teaching from the Bible, but from opinion (cult like practices) Careful as you go though my friend.

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Post by dizzy on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:49 am

Problem being, I don't know how many others in the group are OK w/his teachings, nor where they are in their walk w/Christ. I've wondered if I should contact the group's headquarters and see where they stand on this teaching and ask them how to handle it.

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Post by 12acrehome on Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:38 am

I think contacting HQ would be my last step, taken only if I was prepared to walk away from the fellowship. Another possible path would be to show up with a Bible, and ask where to find what he (she) is talking about.

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Post by PATRICE IN IL on Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:24 pm

I agree with FF & Keith. Contact HQ as a last option. How close to some of the others are you? Can you question a few for their standpoint? I'd definitely bring my Bible and ask to be shown where this person's teachings are draw from.
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Post by dizzy on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:37 pm

I always have a Bible w/me, so that's not a problem. I've thought of doing that. In a way, I hate to make waves since I'm the newest member, but at the same time, I can see this hurting the chapter, and possibly causing a ripple effect.

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Post by Farmfresh on Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:23 am

I think it is our Christian duty to see that the Truth is what is being taught.  Maybe a few waves will be good for everyone.
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Post by dizzy on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:23 am

Well, I'm praying about it.  I know I have to say something, I'm just not sure when the best time is going to be.  And I've also been doing a ton of research, both from my Bible and the internet.

ETA: I am prepared to walk away if this is not resolved.

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Post by mountainmama on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:38 am

1. Dizzy, the apostle Paul had a thorn in the flesh and he begged God 3 times to remove it. God did not.

2. There is no biblical basis for this, it is simply the guy's opinion.

3. This is the most troublesome, and is a MAJOR deal breaker for Christians. Jesus Christ is, and always was, God. This is a deciding doctrine that completely separates Bible believing Christians from cults. When Christ came on earth, the whole reason the Jewish leaders hated him was because he forgave sin. He specifically told people, "your sins are forgiven you." This infuriated the Pharisees, because they said only God had the power to forgive sin. So, by forgiving sin, Christ was saying he was God, and in their minds, that was blasphemy.

Now, all the cults have one thing in common--they do NOT believe Jesus was God. They believe He was God's son, or they believe He was a god, but not God. Yet Jesus himself said "I and my father are one."

Also, in the book of Genesis, God said "Let us make man in our own image" and that word "our" is talking about the Godhead, the trinity, made up of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity is one that separates those who believe and those who don't. Our whole faith hinges on Christ being God!


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Post by Farmfresh on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:54 am

Amen.
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Post by dizzy on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:59 am

MM, I agree w/you 100%. W/the research I've been doing on the internet, it seems to tie in w/the Word of Faith movement.

For those that aren't familiar w/this, they basically teach that God wants you to be healthy, wealthy and happy. It started in the Pentecostal church, then spread from there. They have quite a number of teachings that go against what the Bible teaches. And I know many in this chapter are coming from a Pentecostal background. And while many Pentecostal churches reject this doctrine as heresy, others embrace it.


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Post by PATRICE IN IL on Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:59 am

Exactly MM, well said & on point.
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Post by mountainmama on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:42 pm

If Jesus wanted us to be healthy, wealthy, and "happy" He wouldn't have been called the Man of Sorrows, one who didn't have a place to lay his head. We are to follow His example, and no where are we encouraged to have physical, earthly riches. Our wealth is in heaven.

My brother-in-law is caught up in this mess. These teachings produce fans of Jesus, not followers.

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Post by dizzy on Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:20 am

I seem to recall that they teach Jesus actually had a large house and plenty of money. Makes no sense to me.

One of the big problems that I have w/this ideology is it basically reduces Jesus to a magic genie-not all powerful God.

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Post by Rohn on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:28 am

Sorry I missed this discussion when it was started. I am quite busy in the spring. I agree with all the others here that have given their opinion. I just wonder how it all turned out?
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Post by 12acrehome on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:59 am

hmm, yes we never did hear how this turned out.

If you don't mind sharing, could you give us a follow up? (no is an acceptable answer)


_________________
Proverbs 28:19  He who works his land will have abundant food...

Genesis 1:29  Then God said,"I give you every seed bearing plant on the face of the whole earth, and every tree that has fruit with seed in it..."

http://christiancountryramblings.com/
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Post by dizzy on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:55 pm

There hasn't been a problem lately, so I haven't really done much about it. I'm still debating what I'm going to do.

As it is, the group is not doing well. There was hardly anyone out last month for the meeting, and the socials (ice cream runs) have not been well attended.

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