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Post by Sonshine on Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:05 pm

I've heard many people say that when a child dies they go to heaven. They claim they will go to heaven until they reach the age of accountability. What is the age of accountability and what scripture do you have to support your beliefs?

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Post by 12acrehome on Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:09 pm

This should at least be educational. I have never looked to scripture for this one. I'm gonna have to do some searching,

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Post by Sonshine on Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:25 am

I'd be interested in what you find. This is something I searched for years. Everyone I've ever asked this question tells me the age of accountability is 12. I think they draw that conclusion because that's the age that the Jews consider a child entering adulthood. However, I've never found scripture to support this. Personally I believe the age of accountability varies, as a child matures enough to understand, that's when God will hold them accountable. But I've never found scripture to support that.

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Post by 12acrehome on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:22 am

Well so far no supporting scripture, but I would think the age of accountability would be in the single digits. The first big birthday, five or seven years old, the one that in "the old world" meant the child would survive to adulthood barring an accident.

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Post by 12acrehome on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:35 am

Hmm, Try this angle.

God shows no special mercies to children nor infants. Isaiah 13;15 - 18, and the book of Nahum 3;5 - 10. The Book of Isaiah speaks of God sending armies to destroy a people, while the book of Nahum speaks of God destroying a people. The children are not spared in either example. My reference is King James version, study bible. Please read these in your version and post your thoughts.

Keith

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Post by PATRICE IN IL on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:07 am

I've always been told that children go to Heaven without being saved until they know right from wrong and understand the difference between both. So there wasn't a set age ever stated.
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Post by Rohn on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:10 am

Sonshine wrote:I've heard many people say that when a child dies they go to heaven. They claim they will go to heaven until they reach the age of accountability. What is the age of accountability and what scripture do you have to support your beliefs?

(Matthew 19:14) But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (KJV)
Here Jesus is telling the disciples to allow the little children to come unto Him because Heaven is largely made up of little children. I believe that children who die will go to heaven until they get to the age of accountability.
(Matthew 18:2-6) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (KJV)
Here are Jesus’ own words in defense of children. We must be converted and become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven. His own words confirm that heaven has many little children.
As to the age of accountability, there are no Scriptures to support this either way. But I believe it all depends on the child. Some understand quicker than others. When they get to the age where they understand God’s laws, they either rebel against them or they come to know Him as their Saviour.
I am glad that I am not the judge when this time is, but it is left to the infallible Judge who makes no mistakes.
The Bible tell us that all who come to that time in their life must repent of their sin.
(Romans 3:23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (KJV)
If sin is confessed, God forgives.
(1 John 1:9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (KJV)
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Post by Sonshine on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:43 am

Rohn, ok, here's another question regarding this, the Bible is clear that we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. We are born in sin. Sin cannot exist in Heaven. So, there is no salvation without repentence. So how does that line up with the whole accountability issue?

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Post by 12acrehome on Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:22 am

Rohn wrote:

(Matthew 19:14) But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. (KJV)
Here Jesus is telling the disciples to allow the little children to come unto Him because Heaven is largely made up of little children.
(Matthew 18:2-6) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (KJV)
Here are Jesus’ own words in defense of children. We must be converted and become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven. His own words confirm that heaven has many little children.
As to the age of accountability, there are no Scriptures to support this either way. But I believe it all depends on the child.

I disagree with your assessment of what is said here. It sounds to me that we should be childlike in our wonderment of Christ, and as humbled as a child held before a crowd. Not a physical becoming of a child, but as a child is always learning and eager to learn about the world we should be eager to learn about our Lord and Savior, as well as God and Heaven.

Also Jesus wants the children to be taught to know him and the Father from a young age, not have to discover him as an adult.

Still nothing about a childs innocence sparing them from judgement.

Keith

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Post by Sonshine on Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:24 pm

I believe the scriptures Rohn posted mean that we are to be childlike in our faith in him. A child has unwavering faith. They haven't gone through a lifetime of disappointments, so they believe everything without question. As we get older we lose that. I think that's why it's harder for an adult to accept Christ. Having been a Children's Pastor for many years I have seen that child like faith. They accept what is said as the truth, but most adults question everything and every one.

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Post by 12acrehome on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:10 pm

but still the age of innocence eludes us

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Post by Rohn on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:26 pm

Sonshine wrote:Rohn, ok, here's another question regarding this, the Bible is clear that we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. We are born in sin. Sin cannot exist in Heaven. So, there is no salvation without repentence. So how does that line up with the whole accountability issue?

An infant or a child that has not come to the age of accountability has not knowingly committed sin. They will not be held accountable for sin they have not chosen to commit. This would be unjust. Here is why I believe this.

The Bible tells us that God is a God of mercy and justice. He exercises lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness.
Here are a couple of Scriptures that show this. There are man others.

(Jeremiah 9:24) But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. (KJV)

(Psalms 86:15) But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth. (KJV)

Those who condemn the just are an abomination to Him.

(Proverbs 17:15) He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. (KJV)

So if God doesn’t want His people to condemn the just, He certainly will not condemn innocent children for eternity.

(Jeremiah 29:11) For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. (KJV)

God loves people so much that He gave His only begotten Son to shed His precious blood and die on the cross to save them from sin. He paid such a price so that we could be saved. It is when we reject His gift that we are lost and without hope. He died for the little children as well as for the adults. I believe He has the power to cleanse the sin from the heart of an infant or small child who dies before they have the ability to come to Him for forgiveness of their sins. If He did not take these little ones to heaven, He would not be a God of mercy and justice as the Bible states Him to be.

Children are saved when they die, and they do go to heaven. Look at Luke’s account of what Jesus said when they brought infants to Him.

(Luke 18:15-17) And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. (KJV)

Heaven is largely made up of little children. Yes they are there!
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Post by Rohn on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Sonshine wrote:I believe the scriptures Rohn posted mean that we are to be childlike in our faith in him. A child has unwavering faith. They haven't gone through a lifetime of disappointments, so they believe everything without question. As we get older we lose that. I think that's why it's harder for an adult to accept Christ. Having been a Children's Pastor for many years I have seen that child like faith. They accept what is said as the truth, but most adults question everything and every one.

Exactly. That is a good summary of what Jesus was saying.
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Post by 12acrehome on Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:16 am

Rohn wrote:
Sonshine wrote:Rohn, ok, here's another question regarding this, the Bible is clear that we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. We are born in sin. Sin cannot exist in Heaven. So, there is no salvation without repentence. So how does that line up with the whole accountability issue?

An infant or a child that has not come to the age of accountability has not knowingly committed sin. They will not be held accountable for sin they have not chosen to commit. This would be unjust. Here is why I believe this.

Children are saved when they die, and they do go to heaven. Look at Luke’s account of what Jesus said when they brought infants to Him.

(Luke 18:15-17) And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. (KJV)

Heaven is largely made up of little children. Yes they are there!

If there is an age of accountability why are infants baptized in nearly every church I have attended?? All are sinners and cannot enter heaven until they come to Jesus. Jesus is ministering to the children here, not verifying that children are automatically granted eternal life.



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Post by Rohn on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:23 am


Baptism does not save anyone. Baptism is an outward sign, as a testimony to the world, that everything is well between the soul of man and God. Infants and children can be baptized because all is well between them and God. They have not committed any sin.
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Post by 7dawn on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:00 am

12acrehome wrote:Hmm, Try this angle.

God shows no special mercies to children nor infants. Isaiah 13;15 - 18, and the book of Nahum 3;5 - 10. The Book of Isaiah speaks of God sending armies to destroy a people, while the book of Nahum speaks of God destroying a people. The children are not spared in either example. My reference is King James version, study bible. Please read these in your version and post your thoughts.

Keith
I really have to think about how to respond to this properly...the words I am typing are not coming out properly scratch .

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Post by 12acrehome on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:14 am

This is for debate only, not where I actually stand, nor what I believe.

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Post by 7dawn on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:32 am

I figured that...lol...

What I see in my mind is not coming out in my typing.

I know God ordered entire nations be demolished. I do not believe that the children of those nations went to hell unless they had a full comprehension of what was going on, knew who God was and decided to worship other gods.

As far as accountability goes, I do not think there is an actual age. I tend to believe it would have to do with the child or persons understanding of the Scriptures and so on...I also believe that there are people out there that know God but do not know him, kind of like the Greeks and the statue that Paul used to get them to listen to him when he was trying to share Christ with them.

Oh brother, I hope I am making sense. scratch

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Post by 12acrehome on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:57 pm

Ok, I think I am following you.

So you are saying that God is so forgiving that those who have never heard of him are automatically received into heaven and just are given the grace we must ask for??


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Post by Sonshine on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 am

I know that the Jews believe the age of accountability is 13. I have also heard many say that it was 12 because that was the age Jesus was when he wandered from his parents and they found him in the temple. I've also heard some claim that the age of accountability was 20 because of the Hebrew children when they left Egypt. I really struggled with this issue for many years because I couldn't believe that God would allow a child to go to hell, yet I knew the Bible told us that the only way to get to Heaven is through Jesus. My own personal belief is not found in the scriptures per se, but I do know that God loves children and that He is a merciful God. I beleive that God alone knows when a child is mature enough to understand the concept of sin and forgiveness. Since God knows our hearts, I believe that He judges accordingly.

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Post by Rohn on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:41 am

Sonshine, I agree whole completely with you on the issue of the age of accountability.
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Post by 7dawn on Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:21 am

12acrehome wrote:Ok, I think I am following you.

So you are saying that God is so forgiving that those who have never heard of him are automatically received into heaven and just are given the grace we must ask for??


No, that is not what I am saying. I believe that He judges by the heart. I believe Paul mentions it in the Scripture, but I would have to find where. And when I say judges by the heart, I mean according to what they have heard or not heard about. There are still some tribes out there that have never heard of Jesus. I also believe we all have an inherent knowledge of God. That we are born with that knowledge. From the time I was very young I believed in Jesus, but I did not understand what it meant to belong to him.

Does that make more sense?

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Post by Sonshine on Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:33 am

Dawn, even those who have never heard of Jesus have a sense of what is right and what is wrong. Mankind is not only born in the flesh, but we are born of the spirit. When God created all the animals, man was created differently. It was only man that God breathed the breath of life into. I believe that is how we know right from wrong, even without knowledge of Jesus.

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Post by 7dawn on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:22 am

Exactly!!!! And it is in the Scripture about God judging by the heart.....I will have to find it. But it is for those that have never heard the Gospel.

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Post by MountainRose on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:54 am

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
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