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The day of the Lord (cont)

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The day of the Lord (cont)

Post by Sonshine on Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:26 am

Now, when will the Day of the Lord begin? Before I tell you when the Bible says it begins, we need to know where most pre-tribbers believe it starts. Let me quote C.I. Scofield, in his notes attached to his popular Bible: (Read page 1372, if you have a Schofield Bible.)

Two things are of important note here:

He believes that there is blessing associated with the Day of the Lord. No where in the Bible does it state or infer that there is blessing associated with the Day of the Lord. As we just read, it is a time of total darkness and terror.

I want to throw in a quote by Richard Mayhue. Richard Mayhue is the dean of Master's seminary (MacAuthur's school). He did his doctoral dissertation on the Day of the Lord. It is the most thorough study on the Day of the Lord that I know of, 400 pages of research, listing every reference to the Day of the Lord in the Bible. Richard Mayhue, who is a pre-trib rapturist writes:


"The prominent theme of the Day of the Lord is God's judgment against sin. It is present in every Day of the Lord passage. The blessings of Christ's millennial reign are subsequent to and as a result of the Day of the Lord, but they are not part of it...."
In other words, he is saying the Day of the Lord does not include the millennium. For the purpose of our study, that point is not critical, but it does show a reading into the scriptures something it does not say.

The second thing that is important to note concerning Scofield's views on the Day of the Lord is that he believes it begins after the rapture of the church, and begins with the commencement of the 70th week. He is actually half right. The Day of the Lord does begin after the rapture, but it does not start at the beginning of the 70th week. This is critical, so with Scofield and most other pre-tribbers I take strong exception. If the Day of the Lord begins at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week, then I would still believe in the Pre-trib rapture. But it does not. Let me show you.


Joe 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
What does Joel say must occur before the Day of the Lord begins? (we'll call this cosmic disturbance)
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Notice the cosmic disturbance


Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Eze 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 32:9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.
Notice the cosmic disturbance

In every passage where it speaks of the cosmic disturbance, it is always in the context of the Day of the Lord. Now, Look at Revelation chapter 6. Most Bible scholars believe the book of Revelation outlines the chronology of Daniel's 70th week (later I'll show you that Matt 24 directly parallels Rev 6).


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Revelation chapter 6 is a chronological account of Daniel's 70th week. The first seal was opened and certain events occur. The 2nd seal opens and certain events occur. The 3rd seal, 4th seal, 5th seal. And with the opening of the sixth seal there is cosmic disturbance, exactly what the prophets spoke of. And in verse 17 it says that the great Day of his wrath is come! So it is very clear that the Day of the Lord spoken of in the Old Testament occurs after the opening of the 6th seal. What happens next?


Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Silence. Why is there silence? Because God is about to directly intervene and judge sinful man. What follows are the 7 trumpet and 7 bowl judgments. This exactly parallels all the passages we read that speaks of the terror and darkness of the Day of the Lord.

Now, let's finish putting together the chronology of Daniel's 70th week. Lets look at Matthew 24. What do we know so far?


Daniel's 70th week is a future 7 year period
Antichrist defiles the temple at the mid-way point.
The Great Tribulation begins immediately after the abomination of desecration.
The Great Tribulation is cut short or amputated.
and next, the Day of the Lord begins.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Immediately after the tribulation of what days?


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Now look back at verse 29 again. What did we call that? (cosmic disturbance) When does that occur? (at the opening of the sixth seal) So the Day of the Lord must begin in the latter half of the 70th week after the amputation of the Great Tribulation, and after the opening of the 6th seal.

Then the chronology of Daniel's 70th week goes like this:

The beginning of the 70th week starts with the confirmation of the covenant between Israel and the antichrist (Dan 9:27)
The antichrist breaks the agreement with Israel and defiles the temple at the midway point (Dan 9:27)
The Great Tribulation now begins, but is amputated right before the opening of the sixth seal (Matt 24:21-22,29)
The sixth seal opens which announces that the Day of the Lord is about to begin (Joel 2:30,31; Rev 6:17)
Now, the question of the Day. When does the rapture occur? Quoting from C.I. Scofield, he says


"The order of end-time events appear to be first, the rapture of the church just preceding the beginning of the Day of the Lord, the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week, and the return of the Lord in glory to establish the millennial reign."
Now, as we've already shown, Scofield was wrong on when the Day of the Lord begins. It clearly begins in the latter half of the 70th week after the opening of the 6th seal. But he was absolutely right in linking it to the rapture.


Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
When does it say God's judgment started? (the same day Noah entered the ark, and the same day Lot left Sodom) The Bible clearly teaches that the removal of the righteous and God's judgment (the Day of the Lord) begin on the same day.


1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Remember, when the Bible was written, there were no chapter or verse numbers. The continuity of chapter 4 and chapter 5 clearly link the rapture and the Day of the Lord.

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Peter here simply repeats what he has been taught by Christ--the truth that when Christ returns, he will come to simultaneously rescue his saints and destroy the wicked.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Verse 29 says that at the commencement of the cosmic disturbance (6th seal), then (v30), Christ will return in the clouds to gather his elect.
And by the way, it is no incident that the disciples linked his coming and his judgment together (What is the sign of your coming and the end of the age?). The passage we just looked at in Luke 17 concerning Noah and Lot was taught by Jesus before the Olivet Discourse. And what was he teaching? That the removal of the righteous and the judgment of the world would begin on the same day. The disciples understood that. So the question they asked on the Mount of Olives was not how, but when would it be.

The Bible clearly teaches that the rapture of the church and the Day of Lord occur together. You cannot, exegetically, say the Day of the Lord begins beyond the middle of the 70th week, but we'd like to have the rapture occur 4-5 years earlier. The Bible allows for no such gap.

I want to quote from Dr. John Sproule, former head of the Greek Department at Grace Seminary which is a very staunch Pre-Trib school). He himself wrote a book in support of Pre-Trib Rapturism called In Defense of Pre-Tribulationalism. He writes,

"Every Old Testament passage containing this phrase (Day of the Lord) can be linked to the final portion of Daniel's 70th week, when God's wrath is poured out upon the Gentile nations. If this is true, then Pre-Tribs must face the critical problem of 1 Thess 5:1-11, and 2 Thess 2:1-5, which seem to link the rapture with the Day of the Lord".
Again, I want to quote from Richard Mayhue,

"...all of the Day of the Lord passages appear to find their fulfillment sometime in the second half of the 70th week".
And Dr. John MacAuthur, who used to believe the Day of the Lord began at the beginning of the 70th week, now says, "no way, it has to begin somewhere in the 2nd half of the 70th week.

I applaud these men for their courage to go against traditional pre-tribulation rapturism as to the placement of the Day of the Lord, yet some of these guys desperately want to somehow say even though the Day of the Lord starts somewhere beyond the middle of the 70th week, we still think the rapture occurs 4 or 5 years earlier. It's an impossible position based on the Lord's teaching in Matt 24, and based on Paul's teaching in 1 & 2 Thess that clearly link the rapture with the Day of the Lord.

Next we'll go into the Great Tribulation.

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but from idle pursuits a man has his fill of poverty
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Re: The day of the Lord (cont)

Post by FreeBird58 on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:49 am

Let's take a look at what you've posted here.

The Bible clearly teaches that the removal of the righteous and God's judgment (the Day of the Lord) begin on the same day.


Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
When does it say God's judgment started? (the same day Noah entered the ark, and the same day Lot left Sodom) The Bible clearly teaches that the removal of the righteous and God's judgment (the Day of the Lord) begin on the same day.


Once the rapture takes place the righteous are removed. When Noah entered the ark he was removed. When Lot left Sodom he was removed. As you read how things were in the days of Noe and how unconcerned the people were. Same when Lot left Sodom. When we are raptured out there will be some chaos and confussion but calm will be restored and life will go on. People will be unaware that the day of the Lord has begun. Then 3.5 yrs later the anti-christ will shut down the temple and demand the people worship him. This is when things will get real bad , it will be like nothing ever seen before.

Something else I take great concern with pertaining to the pre-wrath view. You have stated that the problem with mid-trib and post-trib views is it gives a time stamped window of when the rapture takes place. According to pre-wrath view of the rapture taking place between the 5th and 6th seal it appears to me that this also creates a time frame in which this takes place. This goes against scripture that Clearly says that No man know the hour or the day.

Only other thing I'll say is that if you want to stay here that long your more than welcome to but I plan on leaving out before the First seal is ever broken.
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Re: The day of the Lord (cont)

Post by Sonshine on Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:28 am

Well, I never said I wanted to stay here, only that I believed we would be here. If weren't not, then great, but if we are, there will be many people who's faith is going to be very shaken.

It's true that no man knows the hour or the day that the rapture will occur, but we are given signs to watch for so we will know when it is nearing.

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