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Let's look at the word "age" and "end"

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Let's look at the word "age" and "end"

Post by Sonshine on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:12 am

In Matt 24:3, the KJV uses the word "world" instead of the word "age". The word "world" is a bad translation. Actually it is better translated "age". It is not speaking of the cosmos, which is the world, but it is speaking of the aion, which is the age. In other words, "what will be the sign of your coming, and the consummation of the age (not the end of the world, as if the world terminates).

All throughout the O.T., the prophets spoke of two ages: one that is all bad because of sin, and the glorious age which was to follow.

So the disciples asked the question with the understanding that there was to be another age in connection with his coming. In other words, when messiah came, he would then usher in the golden age where they would have everlasting peace.

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In a very clear way, our Lord here teaches that the harvest will occur at the end of the age. Look at verse 39. According to this verse, the harvest is the end of the age. Now what is the harvest? Look at verse 49. It is clear from this passage that the end of the age is spoken of as the time when the great harvest will take place, a time when the wicked will be separated from the righteous. That will be the end of the age. And what about this golden age? Read verse 43. After this present age that is marred by sin, there will be a golden age when the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their father.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Very simply Jesus is saying that he will be with you to the end of the age. Who is he speaking to? His Jewish disciples.


Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
What end is Jesus referring to here? (the end of the age--they just asked Jesus that in verse 3). The disciples asked Jesus for a sign as to when the end of the age would come. And Jesus proceeds to give them signs, and says but the end of the age is not yet come. The great harvest has not taken place yet!

Now, most pre-tribulation rapturists, Dwight Pentecost, John Walvoord, C.I. Scofield, Charles Ryrie to name a few, believe that the 70th week of Daniel begins in verse 4. Again, Jesus told his disciples in Matt 28 that he would be with them to the end of the age, and in Matt 13, Jesus taught that the separation of the righteous from the unrighteous will be at the end of the age.

And then in Matthew 24, starting in verse 4, Jesus begins to describe events which historic pre-tribulation rapturism say are within the 70th week of Daniel. And the Lord says in verse 6 that the end of the age is not yet.

In other words, the church is going to be around till the end of the age. It's very, very clear. And by the way, this is a very difficult passage for pre-tribbers. For if Jesus was truly talking to his disciples as representatives of the church, then by their own admission, the church must go through the tribulation. So they have to come up with an explanation that removes the church prior to verse 4. Do you know how they do it? They say that Matthew 24 refers to unsaved Israel, not the church.

Now, if you are convinced that Jesus was talking about unsaved Israel in Matt 24, and not the church, then you have to come up with another coming, a secret coming before the 70th week of Daniel, to justify your pre-trib position. There is no other way.

But if Jesus was talking to his disciples as representatives of the church, then you have to conclude that the church will go through the tribulation (pre-tribbers admit this).

The interpretation of this text is absolutely critical to understanding the timing of the rapture. Right now, I will not give the arguments for, what I believe, is clearly a passage for the church. We will get to that later. The main thing I want you to understand now is that this passage is the most critical passage in understanding when Christ will come for his church.

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Re: Let's look at the word "age" and "end"

Post by FreeBird58 on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:20 am

Hope I don't upset anyone but I have held back as long as I can. First of all I will say I am and will remain a pre-trib believer and will defend that position because it is the only one that does line up with scripture.

First thing that must be understood is that Mat.24 covers both, verses 1-35 speaks of the tribulation period and 36-51 speaks of the rapture.

Mat.28 lines up because Jesus says He will Never leave you or forsake you. I take Never to literally mean Never. Are we not as children of God going to dwell with him in Heaven for eternity?

Mat.13 lines up because the end of the age is when Jesus comes with the army of the Saints and this is when He will bring it all to a close. He will separate the good from the bad .

Most folks know and understand that there are some Jews that believe Jesus is the Messiah and there are alot of Jews that don't. When the rapture takes place those that don't believe he's the Messiah won't go in the rapture. The Church will not remain on earth through the tribulation period. Mat.24 refers to All unsaved whether they be Jew or Gentile.

There will be No secret coming. I firmly believe that non-believers will Not hear the Trump sound or the Angel shout but when people are gone right before their eyes and the chaos ensues moments after, this can in no way be a secret.

I will never conclude that the Church will go through the tribulation period because it goes against scripture.

Once again I'm only stating what "This" pre-tribber believes and just backing my position.
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Re: Let's look at the word "age" and "end"

Post by Sonshine on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:51 am

I agree that Jesus will never leave nor forsake us, but we are told that in this life we will have tribulations. I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 The Bible also tells us that we will not face God's wrath. “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 5:9) What the author is hoping to show in this study is that there is a difference between the tribulation period and God's wrath. God doesn't pour out his wrath till sometime into the tribulation and before that happens the Christians will be raptured.

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Re: Let's look at the word "age" and "end"

Post by Sonshine on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:55 am

Just wanted to add, please don't be silent, even if you disagree. It's by discussing things, even things we disagree on, that we grow. I use to be a very staunch pre-tribber myself, but then I began to think some things didn't quite add up and began searching. This is not a subject that will affect whether you go to heaven or not, I just think it's interesting and "if" this teaching is right I believe many pre-tribbers are going to fall away when they realize that they are in the tribulation period.

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Re: Let's look at the word "age" and "end"

Post by 7dawn on Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:24 pm

I believe we are already starting to see tribulation, more so than ever before. If you look at the teaching of....oh rats, I can't remember his name...He is out of Dallas, we are in the final trump of tribulation. Okay, I looked it up. His name is Irvin Baxter and he has a very interesting take on Revelation. I have never heard it taught like that before, but it would make sense in some regard since most major happenings in the Bible are progresssive, maybe with the exception of Exodus.

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