Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Like/Tweet/+1
Latest topics
» The Beast Revelation
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:24 am by michae1

» Facebook page
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:19 am by dizzy

» Hilarious video A little garden fun by the cowboy poet Baxter Black
Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:54 am by mountainmama

» An Insurrection Coming
Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 am by 12acrehome

» Patrice's Patch Garden Journal
Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:47 am by PATRICE IN IL

» lambs and ewes
Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:46 pm by Farmfresh

» Irish Cuisine Class/Demonstration Recipes
Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:13 am by PATRICE IN IL

» Prayer request for my dh's aunt
Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:55 pm by PATRICE IN IL

» How has your day been and what's for dinner...................
Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:43 am by PATRICE IN IL

Keywords

Taco  Seasoning  Sloppy  

Affiliates
free forum

Top posting users this week


What shall be the sign?

Go down

What shall be the sign?

Post by Sonshine on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:46 pm

Simply stated, God posted signs at critical forks in the road of history to say to men and women of faith, this is the way--walk in it. Then along with the sign, to authenticate the message, there would be the miraculous. The idea was to say, this is the genuine article. Here's the direction, here's the message, here's the sign, now I'm authenticating it with a miracle or wonder. For example:


Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
All the way back in the book of Isaiah, King Ahaz was ruling over the southern kingdom of Judah. He was of the royal line of David, but was a wicked man. He had received word that the 10 northern tribes had formed a coalition with Syria, and that they were coming down South to dethrone him. He was very concerned and Isaiah comes to the king and says: You do not have to worry about that. This coalition will not prosper.
And then Isaiah says to Ahaz, God has said, ask of me a sign in the heavens above or the earth beneath. The idea was to ask something tough. Ask something supernatural. Ask something miraculous. Do you know what Ahaz's response was? Let's look at Is 7:11-12:.


Isaiah 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. Isaiah 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
He refused to ask for a sign. So God says: Oh hear now, house of David, I'll give you a sign. And the idea is "I'll give you a sign, a wonder or a miracle". "I'll give you a sign so you'll know when the righteous King is in your midst". And here is that sign:

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This is a messianic prophecy concerning the first coming of Christ. In other words, you will know when the everlasting King is in your midst when you see this miraculous sign.

So let me ask you a question: What was the miraculous sign in verse 14? (the virgin birth!) And it was fulfilled hundreds of years later in that little manger in Bethlehem.

Remember, there was another sign given to the religious leaders. Remember what it was?

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
So there was a sign to verify the first coming of Christ.

So we now come to Matt 24, and the disciples inquire of Jesus asking him, what shall be the sign of thy coming? So you must understand, that whatever this sign is, it's miraculous and supernatural. And the Jews understood this way of thinking. Remember what Paul said: "The Jews require a sign" (1 Cor 1:22). And so the Jews were always asking for signs, and the disciples were no different.

One final note before we move on: notice in Matthew 24:3, the disciples ask, what is the sign of your coming? It is in the singular tense, not plural. Remember that.

Now, let's talk about this word "coming"

2) "Coming": What will be the sign of your coming?

The word coming that is used in verse 3 is the Greek word "parousia".

Now Vines says of this word: "The word parousia means arrival and consequent presence with". And by the way, Dr. John MacAuthur, a pre-tribber agrees whole-heartedly with this interpretation. It is very clear in the Greek.

It is a process, not merely a momentary appearance. I cannot underscore that too strongly.

The word coming is not a synonym for here. Coming means a process. (Ex: I call my mom and tell her I am coming. I make a plane reservation, I pack my bags, I have my mail stopped, I drive to the airport, etc. There are many things I do in relation to my one coming.)

The word parousia indicates an arrival and presence. It could have a number of events associated with it. (Ex: What did the first coming of Christ involve?)

Parousia carries with it the idea of a process, not an instantaneous thing of coming and going.

So what will be connected with the 2nd coming of Christ? The first thing will be the rapture of the church. Then he will judge the nations of the world, the anti-christ, and the false prophet. He will defeat Satan. He will defeat the armies of the world at Armageddon. Then he will return physically to the earth and set up his kingdom. All these are events of his second coming, just like his first coming. It will be a series of events, a process.


Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
The word presence used here is the word parousia. And here it speaks of Paul not just arriving, but being present with these believers.
This is of course is especially interesting in the light of the disciples question to Jesus, what will be the sign of your coming, or presence?

Now, a few more things about this word parousia or coming.


Parousia always always is in the singular. Very important. It never speaks of comings, but one singular coming.
It also always comes with a definite article or a personal pronoun. That is: the coming, thy coming, or his coming.
Always in the singular, and always with a personal pronoun.
Not once does the Bible speak of two comings. Not even by a hint or implication. It never does.
It can be demonstrated that the parousia of Christ occurs after the middle of the 70th week.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This is referring to the abomination of desolation during the 70th week of Daniel. When did we say this occurred (in the middle!)?


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This verse specifically refers to the coming or parousia of the Lord. In context, for arguments sake now, this occurs sometime after the middle of the 70th week. And that coming is a process that takes a period of time, but is said to occur after the middle of the 70th week (We'll tell you how long later).

For pre-tribulation rapturism to be correct, you must have an earlier parousia or coming for the rapture of the church. It means you must have two distinct comings, not one over a period of time. Remember now, in context, Jesus answers the disciples question, by telling them that his coming would be after the abomination in the temple. And the Bible always speaks of one coming and in the singular. It never, never, never refers to two comings. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever speak of a secret coming of the Lord. It says it will be like lightening, it says we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, but nowhere does it say it will be in secret.

Now let's look at this word world or age found also in Matt 24:3.

_________________
Sonshine
He who cultivates his land will have plenty of food,
but from idle pursuits a man has his fill of poverty
Proverbs 28:19[b]
avatar
Sonshine
Admin

Posts : 5253
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 60

http://christianhomesteader.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by 7dawn on Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:31 am

I could have very well read this wrong, but if he raptures the church after the 3.5 years then there are supposed to be another 3.5 years under the wrath of God, correct? But if he raptures the church and immediately judges...Oh, I am so confused...

_________________
Dawn

You laugh because I am different. I laugh because you are all the same.

http://myshakeology.com/esuite/home/7dawn

http://www.teambeachbody.com/home
avatar
7dawn
Admin

Posts : 847
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 51
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by Sonshine on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:05 am

He doesn't immediately judge from my understanding. The wrath of God will come first. I wouldn't say it will be 3.5 years, but that is what mid-trib teaches.

_________________
Sonshine
He who cultivates his land will have plenty of food,
but from idle pursuits a man has his fill of poverty
Proverbs 28:19[b]
avatar
Sonshine
Admin

Posts : 5253
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 60

http://christianhomesteader.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by 7dawn on Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:20 pm

Isn't it supposed to be a 7 year period when all that stuff happens?

_________________
Dawn

You laugh because I am different. I laugh because you are all the same.

http://myshakeology.com/esuite/home/7dawn

http://www.teambeachbody.com/home
avatar
7dawn
Admin

Posts : 847
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 51
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by Sonshine on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:12 pm

Yes, but we don't know exactly how long into the trib period before the rapture takes place. It tells us that unless God cuts it short no one would survive, so we don't know how far into the 7 years we are to remain. We will be taken before the wrath of God though because we are told that we will not face God's wrath.

_________________
Sonshine
He who cultivates his land will have plenty of food,
but from idle pursuits a man has his fill of poverty
Proverbs 28:19[b]
avatar
Sonshine
Admin

Posts : 5253
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 60

http://christianhomesteader.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by squeezinby on Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:46 am

Ok, so what is it you are teaching/agreing with. Pretrib or midtrib?

_________________
[b][i]Now I Wake me up to live,I'll give life all I have to give.
If today I face a test, I'll pray and cope and do my best.
With each breath and step I take, Be with me LORD for heaven's sake.
Amen
avatar
squeezinby

Posts : 267
Join date : 2009-05-08
Age : 53
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by Sonshine on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:16 am

Neither, I believe in pre-wrath. I believe we'll be taken before the wrath of God, but I think where pre-trib disagrees with me is when the wrath of God starts during this time. That's why the author of this study is laying some ground work before getting into the pre-wrath doctrine.

_________________
Sonshine
He who cultivates his land will have plenty of food,
but from idle pursuits a man has his fill of poverty
Proverbs 28:19[b]
avatar
Sonshine
Admin

Posts : 5253
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 60

http://christianhomesteader.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by 7dawn on Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:10 am

Ahh....Okay, I will await more.

_________________
Dawn

You laugh because I am different. I laugh because you are all the same.

http://myshakeology.com/esuite/home/7dawn

http://www.teambeachbody.com/home
avatar
7dawn
Admin

Posts : 847
Join date : 2009-05-07
Age : 51
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: What shall be the sign?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum