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Pre-wrath rapture study

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Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by Sonshine on Sun May 24, 2009 1:06 am

When I first started this discussion, I couldn't find my notes on it, so I offered some links, which may not have been the best links to share. My studies on this have taken me to several resources with the Bible being the final authority for me. My seach began about 15 years ago. I grew up believing in the pre-trib rapture, but as I studied it more, I found some things that bothered me about this teaching. I'm going to be posting a study here for those interested. This is not to change any one's mind, but to try to share why I changed my view on this topic. You can either follow along with what I post, or here is the site I am sharing information from: http://www.pretribulationrapture.com/prewrath/article10.htm

A. Why am I doing this study?
The Lord has led me to study the scriptures concerning the timing of the rapture of the church.
And I have to confess, after 17 years of holding to the pre-tribulational rapture, I was wrong.

B. Why is this important?
Some of you may hold to the Pan-Tribulation viewpoint (the view that states it will all pan out in the end).
So why is this important? I believe there are two main reasons.
Those who love God's word want to know what it says (Rev 1:3)
And if the Church is going to see Great Tribulation, then she must be prepared. American Christians are counting on the "Great Escape".

C. Study but be not divisive.
This will be an indepth Bible study of end time events. In no way am I saying I have all the answers, and I may not convince you whole-heartedly that I am right. But if you will come away from this saying, "I think Ken may be right", then I have done my job.
This is not going to be a exegetical study of the book of Revelation. There are a lot of metaphors and symbols that are used in Rev that, to be honest with you, I don't understand all of it. We are not going to deal with the chronology of the judgments of God. We are simply going to deal with the chronology of the Tribulation period, only so far as to how it relates to the timing of the return of Christ for us, his church.
This is not going to be a fun study. I am not going to tickle your ears. That is not my intention. My intention is to show you what I strongly believe the Bible teaches concerning Christ's return, and exhort you to be prepared and live holy.
Word of comfort: I am not a part of a cult.
Acts 17:11, prove me as the Bereans.
Final word in terms of my introduction: This is not to be a divisive issue.

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by 7dawn on Mon May 25, 2009 1:47 am

Katrina,

Are you going to compare the bowls of wrath to the seals and trumpets? I see differences in them and really need to write them down. If I get it together today I might do that. I think that is where the confusion is on some of this stuff. Some think they are all the same thing.

I hope I said that right. It has been a long weekend!

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by Sonshine on Mon May 25, 2009 3:35 am

I was planning on just going through the study and discuss it as we go, but feel free to post on the bowls, seals and trumpets if you would like. Smile

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by 7dawn on Mon May 25, 2009 6:00 am

Okay, the seals are a prelude to the trumpets...Correct? I need to go read them again.

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by clhend on Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:22 am

The seals, trumpets and vials/bowls do tend to be confusing, and I think one of the reasons is that most people read it as the seals happening, and then the trumpets,followed by the vials.

However, if you look at Rev 6, you read this:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So it is obvious that the opening of the 6th seal is the start of the wrath of God. The descriptions all line up with the Bible's description of the Day of the Lord. Like-a-thief-in-the-night/Day of the Lord

For a more complete comparison of what the Bible says about the Day of the Lord you might find this Bible study interesting. After reading just click on "Newer Post" at the bottom. Like-a-thief-in-the-night/Day of the Lord


Now, if you will look at Rev 11:

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

They both mention the "wrath of God", then look at Rev 15:

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth forever and ever.

I believe if you try to get everything to line up in a row you end up wondering why things don't line up. However, think of this: What if the Seals are an overview, with the trumpets a closer view of what's happening, with the bowl judgments happening very fast.

And remember the 3 woes. Why is it that just before the sounding of the trumpet we're told two of the woes are finished and the third woe comes quickly.

Also: Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Look at this...I just noticed it. "...and the remnant were frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven." Why would the "remnant" give glory to God if they were frightened? Here's an idea: Because they are aware that when they see those things happen that what they are witnessing is the 6th trumpet, and that the last trumpet is getting ready to sound! They are lifting of their heads because their "Redeemption draws nigh"

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Is it possible that the three woes are actually describing the different parts of the judgments? The 1st woe being the seals (I'll have to study this more), the 2nd woe being the events of the trumpet judgments, and then the third woe the bowl judgments. After all the bowl judgments are described as being "poured out". If you have a bowl of something and tip it to begin pouring, it pours out quickly.

Just some things to think about.

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by Sonshine on Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:44 am

Thank you for jumping in. Right now I'm not able to think clear enough to continue the discussion because of the meds the doctors have me on, but am looking forward to continuing this discussion at a later date.

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by clhend on Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:11 pm

Praying for your healing. God bless

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by Sonshine on Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:31 pm

Thank you for your prayers. I have to admit, I'm a little nervous. Smile

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Re: Pre-wrath rapture study

Post by clhend on Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:42 pm

Don't be (I know, easy to say). Nervousness is caused by fear and we know that God does not give us fear. The Word clearly says that fear is a spirit. (2 Tim 1:7). Therefore the Word says to "submit yourself to God, resist the devil and he will flee"...

That's a promise to stand on. We have the authority of Jesus Name and the promise that those things that He did we can do...therefore stand against the enemy. Tell fear to leave in the Name of Jesus, it has NO RIGHT to bother you.

Fear is a liar and can only derail your faith by whispering lies.

Stand strong sister.

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